The Dirty White recently published the above picture of an email they received from Art Bar on their twitter account. We found the email in poor taste and decided to post the original email from The Dirty White and the reply here on Scene SC.
This is the email that started it. From The Dirty White, to Art Bar.
Hey guys,
Just wanted to follow up with you. We had a great time when we played there the 23rd, and were looking to hopefully come back and rock with you guys again sometime soon. We’re taking off Nov and Dec to write/record, but maybe we could set something up for January.
Thanks,
Wes Gilliam
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www.thedirtywhite.com
www.myspace.com/thedirtywhite
www.loudspeakerpr.tumblr.com/thedirtywhite
Response from Art Bar
On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Art Bar Booking-Marty Fort wrote:
No one came to that show.
I am not interested in having you back.
Please contact newbrooklandtavern.com and stop telling Columbia bands you will draw in this market, as you do not.
You are from Florence so my advice is to STAY in Florence.
Marty
And a Response.
On Oct 31, 2010, at 5:49 PM, The Dirty White wrote:Thanks for the advice, we will make note. However, we were asked to play the show by other local bands b/c they liked our music, not b/c we made false promises of packing out the club. We appreciate your bluntness, however we found your remarks in bad taste and very unprofessional. There are ways of telling bands you are not interested in having them back without feeling the need to go for blood. We will not be contacting your establishment again.Best Regards,The Dirty White
And Reply
From: Art Bar Booking-Marty Fort
Date: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: The Dirty White/Follow Up
To: The Dirty WhiteYou may have found my remarks in bad taste, but the club lost out on money on the dates you played.
As far as going for the blood, this is a business.You should take note that I’ve booked this bar for 6 years by running off bands like yours that do not draw anyone in our market.Before you contact Newbrookland I suggest you be prepared to bring 50 people to their club.If you cannot, than as I stated before STAY IN FLORENCE!
Marty
For the past two years our main focus at Scene SC has been to help promote a healthy music community. At times things have gotten a little bit dirty, but they never really strayed from the purpose of pushing the bands and people in the community that work hard to make this a better music scene.
Above is an example of The Dirty White being classy guys. Everyone in Columbia that has met them will attest to that.
This response was completely unprofessional, unnecessary and reflects poorly on the establishment that Marty Fort books for and the overall Columbia music scene. We all know booking bands is a business, but I’m not sure how someone has booked bands for 6 years with this type of attitude.
Here are two reasons I was hesitant about posting these emails.
1) My cousin Bentz Kirby sets up a lot of great shows at Art Bar. He is one of the best supporters of the Columbia music scene out there and truly cares about creating a positive music environment. I don’t want his shows to suffer.
2) I’m not about hurting Art Bar’s business. I’m not about pulling business from any local establishments, much less one that supports music.
But here is the bottom line. They have lost my business and they have lost the business of a lot of my friends. I’ve already talked to bands that draw there, that don’t plan on playing there anymore and I’ve talked to a lot of people that are regulars that don’t plan on going there anymore.
Booking shows is a business, but running off talented bands with a strong fan base in Columbia is not good business. Running off a band that just played Music Crawl a couple of weeks before is bad business. Sending completely unprofessional emails to out of town, well connected talented bands is BAD business.
If you follow The Dirty White, they referenced that Art Bar show as one of the best they’ve ever had. We’ve always told them that Art Bar would be a perfect fit for their band, but now we see how wrong we were. We won’t be telling any other bands to play at Art Bar.
Music in this town will always find a venue. Whether it be us booking free shows at Bey’s, New Brookland being a stand up establishment, it happening behind El Burrito, outside in 5 Points or in someone’s house, good music will find a home. The Dirty White will always be welcome in Columbia, the last thing that we need is for the unique to South Carolina, good music they play to STAY IN FLORENCE.
Marty’s response just makes me sad, and disappointed. 🙁
That is more my feeling than anything.
When Pan played the art bar we made $90 bucks and there were only like 8 people there.
We always had a great time playing there too, and got paid well.
I couldn’t have said it better myself, David. Good for you.
Thanks for posting this Scene SC. I’m from the band Ma’at, and we are all very glad to know about this. I sincerely applaud your audacity here.
If Art Bar wants to make bank, I know a local band they can book that will draw tons of fans.
Napoleon Complex much? There’s no reason to “run off a band like (theirs)” when you can just not bring them back. And, judging from all the places I’ve seen this posted, the people that keep him in boots have had enough. I know he’s been booking bands for SIX WHOLE YEARS (and drives a Dodge Stratus!), but how about this: “We were a bit disappointed by the turnout, so I think we’re going to go in another direction until you start drawing some more people in Columbia. Good luck building your following.” (And, sorry I couldn’t be bothered to to actually show up to see the positive crowd response, which included some influential Columbia tastemakers.) Fewer words, equally to the point, a few less hurt feelings, and if they manage to make it big in Cola, it will be a great day for everyone when they play Art Bar again and make everyone lots of money. Was that so hard? Does he not know that you can’t be a douchestar with impunity – that the music community is actually a community, and that the people that pay the covers and blog and write and post and create the scene tend to talk to each other and hang out with musicians? Yes, it is a business, and this is bad business, you Capital City Playboy, you. Man, talk about defecating where you eat. Give a guy a little power… for a little while, anyway. And STAY OUT OF FLORENCE. In caps.
AMEN!
Well said.
Whoa! That is brutal.
Fantastic response, Dubs!
promoters like the art bar, are the reason why the music scene is dying. you dont ask underground bands to play, if you think they’re gonna bring in money.
This is unbelievable. SceneSC prides itself in bringing the music community together but i never thought that would mean bringing the music community against venues. We don’t have many venues in Columbia as it is – and each venue caters to a different crowd. The Dirty White ARE nice guys, but their sound is not right for Art Bar. Art Bar has done so much for the music community – and as bands, WE keep these venues in business by bringing out crowds. Venues close everyday all over the damn country because bands aren’t living up to their own hype. Not to mention, it is in extremely poor taste that these emails have now been made public. Marty wasn’t rude, he was to the point – can you imagine the position he’s in? This is just so disgusting… for everyone I know, SceneSC has become a playground for controversy and petty arguments. What happened to the music? What happened to covering all of the best bands in the state? This site is nothing but a favoritism blog.. And the “SceneSC” name should change. I mean, so many bands are being left out – this is in no way a site dedicated to the best bands around.. Everyone who has responded so far is either not in a band themselves, or has never dealt with a real booking agent before. Guess what: there’s a whole world outside of Columbia that probably won’t even be as nice as Marty. Bottom line: talking shit about venues that actually do the work in bringing the people of Columbia together with the music is just another day in the life of SceneSC burning bridges.
With the utmost respect for your opinion, being a club promoter does not give someone the right to be a rude fucking tool.
And I for one, am very glad the emails were made public.
People have a right to know what kind of person they’re giving their money to.
I completely agree. It seems like Scene SC needed to start stir up some drama because everyone was starting to forget about this site after they realized the blatant favoritism it shows.
I take everything with a grain of salt from the people who started up a house venue and host competing parties on the nights where good local bands have important shows.
So what if Marty was making a good decision for his venue. At least he let the band know.
I’ve actually been at other shows when we’ve had house shows at our house.
We book shows months in advance. We’ve apologized to The Restoration and Calculator in the past for booking house shows on top of theirs. It is never intentional.
It sucks that we have to compete with New Brookland and The White Mule etc every Tuesday night, but that’s just how things are. No one see’s anything wrong with it.
We didn’t stir up this drama, we are taking the back of a band that we care about. We are like a family and we would have done it for many many other bands if it happened to them.
Wasn’t being rude? Giving unsolicited “advice” isn’t to be mistaken for being blunt.
The downfall of many-a-venues is often a result of the dickheadedness of one person (not the whole establishment). Just because Marty is a booking agent doesn’t give him a license to be an asshole without repercussion. There should be some degree of professionalism required in dealing with bands, especially in a place that appears to be devastated by the turnout of a single show.
I applaud the Dirty White for sharing this email. People should know (especially out-of-town bands) which is where these types of things become “scene news.” If someone sees this and views Marty’s way of conducting business as ethical, they can try to fill up the Art Bar for Mr Fort. If they see it as ridiculous, they will steer clear (or at least know the potential headache ahead).
Maybe Marty will issue an apology and we will have witnessed a problem all the way to its resolution? And maybe Art Bar will have the Dirty White again and a packed venue will let us know it was all a publicity stunt?
ALSO, in response to: “…there’s a whole world outside of Columbia that probably won’t even be as nice as Marty.”
People say that garbage all the time and it is usually to make excuses for jerks. Fun fact: most people don’t act like that. I have dealt with booking agents and promoters all over the North American continent and have fortunately never dealt with the unprofessionalism presented in this unnecessarily mean email.
concerned follower,
i understand what you are thinking slightly, though it seems wrong to post this on this site given the state of what the site is branded to do, it also was very unprofessional to have sent them the e-mail twice.
marty could have either ignored them or just said simply that they would not have any dates lined up for them in the future. but he chose to be a dick about it in every single way.
i have played at the art bar in an anonymous band and we are received the most unprofessional e-mail from marty.
the e-mail is as follows:
do you guys wanna play here?
marty
—————
there’s my point.
——-
this is whether it was right to tell them not to come back.
this is all a matter of professionalism and class.
though i do not agree completely with the posting of this article, this proves the power people have with blogs and their words, though i do not see art bar losing too much of their crowd with this article, it does prove the strength the people have with their words.
the dirty white are Perfect for the art bar. and bands don’t keep art bar open. bands don’t keep any venue open.. booze does. it’s not like art bar host a lot of music anyway so it is not like they are a legit venue.
yes. marty was and is rude as hell. there is a way to tell a band that they will not be playing any time soon. my band used to play there all the time and got paid way more than we should have and we were really not that great, but we brought people to those shows. so seems to me Marty is not interested in good bands but bands that bring a crowd.
SceneSc still supports the music. why the hell do you think they stuck up for a band? and if you think this is a fashion blog then you are an idiot.
p.s
the shirt kevin devine is wearing in the bad books video is hott
As a long time contributor to this site and someone who has booked numerous shows in many venues, I’d like to present a couple of different ideas related to this event. I don’t know how I feel about it all entirely, but there are some points not made here or in any post above that I think deserve some thought.
I have worked with a load of booking managers and promoters, a lot of them are tough as nails assholes. They are taken advantage of by many bands and do what they can to prevent that. Marty is extremely picky (as evidenced by their booking policies) and any band who has worked with him knows that he won’t hesitate to call you out. If you want to play at the Art Bar then you deal with it and promote as best you can. This e-mail is harsh, but not surprising. Does that make it okay? No, but it makes it a lot less newsworthy.
I would have taken offense to his response as well, but hey, its a response. If it were me, I would prefer that over e-mailing a venue a thousand times and not having them respond, especially when you have played there many times. That happens, and any explanation is better than none at all in my opinion.
I agree that his response was harsh, and I would have been crushed had I received the same response. However, I believe making it public is even more unprofessional. That could be damaging to the Dirty White in the long term. Booking managers and promoters work together often, and as a means of furthering your band it is best to keep all communication private no matter how brutal. This sets a bad precedent.
So ultimately, my advice to the Dirty White (who I don’t know personally but I do enjoy their music, and I know they are good folks) is this: Grow a thicker skin. If you haven’t been treated worse than this yet by a venue, then you will. If you don’t like it, don’t play there. It sucks, its unfair, but it is what it is. At least you hadn’t driven four hours and told your set has been cut to 10 minutes and that you wouldn’t be paid.
Just my 2 cents, if every band started emptying out their inbox in public then no one would go to shows anywhere anymore.
Not that any of that makes it right of course…
-Stephen
Solid points Stephen.
Maybe in some small way this will help change how booking agents and venues treat bands.
In strictly a business sense, how does treating people poorly ever help anyone?
I agree that it was in poor taste for the band to publicize this correspondence and in even poorer taste for it to be further publicized on Art Bar’s facebook by a patron and local musician. This could all have been handled much more quietly and without causing tension between more bands, local venues and local music fans. The lack of decent venues in Columbia is bad enough without venues alienating bands and vice versa.
Quick question from someone who has no horse in this race. Has NBT said anything regarding Marty’s jab at them about playing there if you’re a band that can’t draw?
I’ve had a lot of people point that out at me. I’m sure they’ll just watch this one from the sideline.
i was wondering if anyone else was gonna pick up on that
I agree that some booking agents could use reform, but behind every jerk booking agent is 100 bands who don’t draw pounding their inbox with claims of greatness. Both sides could use some work, from what I’ve seen.
As far as the business side of it goes, I think that being selective and honest when booking touring bands can prevent a lot of problems. Some people don’t know how to do that with tact, unfortunately.
What we’ve got here is… a failure to communicate.
It’s this simple.
Don’t talk shit to people if you don’t want to get called out on it.
Never mind that this guy is a total asshole, but these types of booking practices can only shrink a scene (and his business), never grow it. Whether that show had a bad turn out or not, out-of-towners have to be given an opportunity to grow their following. Where is a band gonna develop a draw if they have to have one before they can play?
Marty clearly thinks he’s the King of Rock ‘n Roll after 6 WHOLE YEARS of booking bands like a douchebag, but bands will only stand for this for so long, and 6 years, sadly, is only about halfway there. People will put up with a lot when they love to play, and Marty is currently able to book this club in spite of his ill manner, not because of it. It will take his toll and people will stop coming when bands stop booking. I’ve seen it firsthand. After 10 or 15 years of this, Art Bar will have nothing left. Sadly, if allowed to do so, he will continue cutting of his nose to spite his face once business diminishes, because he’s got it all figured out in his mind.
perhaps you all dont understand. when you are man with the talent and vision of marty fort…you obviously grade on a highcurve and expect fellow artist to have at least half the talent he does. who else in this region can do what he does?-metal, danzig impersonator, travis tritt interpretationist, classical guitarist, all around great guy. all i’m saying is columbia better start appreciating what we have here in this man before he gets sick of it and goes and opens a variety show dinner theatre in myrtle beach and leaves this place a ghost town. God has truly blessed him with a unique originality-lets show some respect.
Not much I can add to what Stephen and Concerned Musician have said, but as someone who is fiercely protective of the local scene and its reputation – as well have having worked with Marty in the booker/promoter relationship countless times – I feel that I must say that Mr. Fort has been nothing but professional every single time I have worked with him.
Marty has never failed to give a band I was promoting – no matter how left-of-center they happened to be – a chance to prove themselves at the Art Bar’s expense. It used to be that Thursday nights were set up for this: prove yourself then and you could have a Saturday night. Fortunately this is no longer the way, as a good band can find it difficult to draw on a weeknight, even if that weeknight is Thursday. Point being, for a venue that limits live music to one night a week, they have to be very selective.
Having said that, Mr. Fort’s reaction to the polite and innocuous e-mail from The Dirty White was unwarranted and completely unprofessional.
I am no apologist for behavior that makes our long-suffering music scene look bad, particularly to touring bands, and most particularly to bands from Florence, with which Columbia has long had a sister city-type of musical relationship with.
Having said THAT, however, making this exchange public does little to improve those relations. I’d go so far as to say that the posting of said e-mail was almost as unprofessional as Mr. Fort’s response. This isn’t the first instance I’ve seen of band-hard-done-by that started a flame war with the venue in question. The difference is that it used to be done with creative flyers and word-of-mouth, whereas now it’s done with the Net. And flyers don’t spread at light-speed.
Any boycott of Art Bar hurts the bands that everyone here is eager to help, as well as employees of said venue.
There must be a more proactive way to deal with one instance of unprofessionalism – one instance that went two ways.
I’m not sure you can be considered a “venue” if you only offer live music once a week.
I live in Greenville, so obviously I’m not an insider, but I’ve been hearing about great shows at NBT for years and have only heard about the Art Bar very recently. I checked their calendar, and it doesn’t seem to be a place worth taking two shits on.
how do magnets work?
Lucky for you Jesus made a wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetism
Though this isn’t necessarily the best way to resolve issues (internet, facebook, tweets..), the reality is we all have to take responsibility for the things we say and do. I’ve learned a long time ago to be careful what you say in writing, etc. Marty chose to write. Marty can deal with the consequences of that decision and the decision to be- not so nice. As far as I feel, when it comes to giving someone my money- which is getting harder to come by these days- I hope that that person/company is basically good. It’s a good thing to be kind to people. Most places – I don’t know a thing about. But, when I find out that an employer treats their employees badly or various other horrible things, I don’t give them my money. That’s my way. Doesn’t have to be everyone’s.
I agree that what Marty said is not wrong, it’s the way it was said that was unnecessary. He certainly has every right to feel that way, but shit gets out sometimes. And I also don’t think it’s necessarily wrong of SceneSC to post about it. That’s the beauty of blogs. In this day and age, anything we say is going to get out. ESPECIALLY if it’s in writing.
I’ve personally never had a problem with Marty. Then again, I haven’t played the Art Bar yet. We’ve always been more of an NBT band. But eventually, I do plan on still booking a show at the Art Bar. It’s a cool place. Seems like it’d be fun to play.
Really, as I’ve said all along, Marty wasn’t wrong with his response, he could have just worded it much better.
But this kind of drama gets people talking. That’s gotta count for something.
Did they bring a crowd? No? Then what is the problem?
If anything, blame “Marty” for booking shitty acts.
how bout magnets? how bout them shits?
There was probably 70-80 people there that night and the bar was constantly packed. I don’t know why he said there was no one there. Also, two local bands played and poor draw should be their responsibility, not the out of town band (who played first by the way)
Art Bar is a place that has live music once a week and every now and then has a special day with multiple acts. It’s not a venue. It doesn’t make it’s money from working with bands and extending its hand to bands on the road. If you have to set up a stage and bring in a mobile soundboard just to have live music, you’re not running a venue.
I have never had the opportunity to receive an email like that from ANYONE who books shows in Columbia. Even times when a show had low attendance did I not receive a response like that. It’s uncalled for and it makes Art Bar look bad.
The boys in the band had an unfortunate incident, and as a result they can skip Art Bar next time they’re in town. Every place for live music is better in Columbia than Art Bar, so don’t sweat it too much, guys. Remember no publicity is bad publicity, and I hope a positive from all this attention is some new followers of yours.
Mountains out of Mole hills.
im sorry guys but dont sweat this. ive been booking shows in columbia for 4 years. ive booked the dirty white before and personally think they rule. ive always thought that art bar shows sucked anyway and sad to say but marty fort is out of touch (look at his bands). the dirty white is welcome to columbia anytime and until this is rectified art bar has lost my business
magnets? how do they work?
Hey Rock Dandy,
I too have been booking bands in this little one horse town for wayyy too many years to get into a pissing match over & I can tell you that Arty Fort is one the best/worse examples of why this town is still stuck in “Bon Jovi/Play that funky music” land!
Regardless of wheather the diry white is the next BIG thing or they truly suck, you still should handle the band with respect & dignity.
Just because Arty is a talent buyer for the strangest little room in town does not mean he is above handling the situation correctly. I can tell you that I have had the oppurtunity to “run off bands” that did not draw well but never used that sort of asshole tone! They have lost my business also, darn I will have to find somewhere else to smell greasy body odor & catch various form of staff!
I stopped going to Art Bar about 3 years ago based upon the overall rudeness of their staff. I will go if a quality band is playing, but it has to be a band that isn’t appearing at any other venue. I would much rather support the good folks at NBT, White Mule, Bey’s, and a multitude of other places where everyone gets equal service.
I’m a salesman, and a lot of times I head straight to a show after a business dinner. Try to get served a beer at Art Bar wearing khaki pants and a polo. Impossible. Elitist hipsters clearly do not need my money, so I take it elsewhere.
None of my dealings with Marty have been positive, I think he’s nice to bands/promoters if he sees an immediate benefit for him. People don’t go to the art bar as a regular good live music venue, they go there to drink. I’m glad someone is calling him on his shit for having an inflated sense of the importance of the handful of bands that he books. The truth is, he can’t make the art bar work as a live music venue. That being said, the art bar has their niche, that has never interested me, but there are venues
that do support new music, and help new bands
gain a following, and those places also serve
alcohol. I will go to those places.
interesting comments…well, if anyone out there is thinking about booking a columbia band guaranteed to not bring in over 3people and possibly lose money and make you regret ever setting up a show with us, please contact biGbanGlovE? at bigbanglovecolumbia@myspce…we truly suck.here are the reasons as far as i can tell…1)we have gone thru 4drummers.i am now learning to play drums cuz it is apparently the only way its gonna work out.i play guitar.i really suck on drums. 2)we are procrastinators and lazy when it comes to…anything 3)i have been playing guitar for 20 years and i still pretty much just use power chords. 4)my mind wanders,so does our bassists. 5)our singer/songwriter listens and LIKES danzig. 6)our drummer…oh, yeah, we dont have one of those. 7)we love playing music.i didnt say GOOD music,just music.8)we arent interrested in scenes,just space exploration, if you know what i mean.so, yeah, i just wasted 5minutes of my time typing this.we suck.stay away from biGbanGlovE?
This is a very unfortunate situation. I don’t think there would be a position for Marty if the owner(s) were aware of his lack of tact. I can see the frustration of being a brilliant guitar player and never making it out of the corn fields, but talking to people that way will do one of two things- 1) you’ll start a little pissy parade like this or 2) likely get the shit kicked out of you. I don’t condone violence at all and it solves nothing. But I would like to point out this was done by email. Ever break up with someone over email? Its the cowardly way to do things but quite efficient if you wish to take the human element out of a situation . If Marty (an errant keystroke reminded me that his name is almost Mary) had any kind of dignity, he wouldn’t talk to people this way. If he was really trying to feign some sort of chutzpa he’d do this in person or at least on the phone.
So Art Bar is going to lose the business of a few people who read this…. boo-hardy-hoo. Guess what all you “they lose my business” war crying babies- Art Bar was around when most of you were still trying to figure out that boner thing in your diapers and your $20 a week ain’t gonna’ sink the ship. I applaud making a difference like they did in the sixties and all but guess what happens when your balls drop and the real world sets in- you pick your battles. Would I like to take a big shit on the hood of a certain Dodge Stratus? Hell yes I would. Am I going to take the time to carry a newspaper with me in the event I find said car to ensure a satisfying sit-down? Likely not.
I hate Dirty White had to deal with a booking agent that was a giant douche. Truth is most of them are giant cocksuckers with big heads and little else going for them. I wouldn’t let this stop me from going to see a good band if they were playing at Art Bar and I would make every attempt to book my band at any other venue in Columbia if for no other reason than to show Mr. Fort that his individual tastes in music (which I find questionable at best) are not shared by everyone.
oooo. david stringer has done it again! drama queen!
this situation should have been left alone. bottom line its his club, he can do with it what he wants. grow some balls and take the “rudeness”
not his club bro.
he books there.
I can’t say anything bad about Art Bar. I’ve been playing in bands in Columbia since 2002 and Marty/Art Bar have always been very kind to me and whatever band I was in, even when we drew 3-5 people. They knew we wanted to play and we cared about playing, so they would give us a show every few months. *note: that wasn’t a jab at TDW or any other band* I agree with the majority in that Marty PROBABLY shouldn’t have said what he said. At first I thought he was having a bad day and then it continued on. On the other hand, I also don’t think it was the best idea to post this on here. I mean, there are what, less than five venues in Columbia that cater to indie rock, and you want to bring a community against one of the venues? Its not like we need any more grey clouds over Columbia’s music scene. But whatever, I’m still going to go there and support AB.
Besides, it’s pretty stupid to boycott the Art Bar over this. You want to hurt other bands in Columbia because of one bands tiff with the booking agent?
Hey, lets forget about all this and just go out to Art Bar this weekend and catch some live music! This weekend will be Cooter Scooters, Sea Wolf Mutiny and Norwegian Blue! YES, NORWEGIAN BLUE! Remember folks, WE ARE SURPORTING LIVE MUSIC HERE, NOT BOOKING AGENTS OR SCENESC.
http://www.myspace.com/norwegianblueband
cute way to promote bro.
wanna grab a brew later?
Art Bar dug it’s own grave when they chose to blanket the place in novelty and cruel irony instead of actually being “artistic”. Remember when they held poetry readings and fringe political rallies along with fairly cutting edge musical acts? To consider Art Bar a “Music Venue” or Marty Fort a “Booking Agent” is a joke. Good riddance. Let them continue to plummet down the downward spiral of non-relevance. I’m sure that dance parties do much better for the bottom line.
The band was writing this guy a thank-you note for shit’s sake!